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For Shxtty Moms
“For Shxtty Moms” is a behavior change podcast for mom’s who are holding on by a thread. Listen as we talk to real moms about the challenges of motherhood; while exploring different strategies to help moms alike get their shxt together!
For Shxtty Moms
EP: 14 From Courtroom to Delivery Room: A Lawyer's Mission to Save Babies
What if the most dangerous day in your child's life could be made safer through simple knowledge and preparation? After 21 years as a medical malpractice attorney specializing in birth trauma cases, Gina Mundy is pulling back the curtain on preventable childbirth mistakes in this eye-opening conversation.
Mundy reveals the stark reality that many parents don't realize they are the ultimate decision-makers during labor and delivery. Every intervention, from Pitocin induction to C-sections, is technically a recommendation that parents can accept or decline. This revelation comes alongside her identification of recurring patterns in birth injury cases that prompted her to write "A Parent's Guide to a Safer Childbirth" and launch a podcast dedicated to preventing these tragedies before they happen.
The discussion takes an honest turn when Mundy shares her struggles balancing her mission-driven work with motherhood. Her touching story about reconnecting with her 10-year-old son during a camping trip, where he initially told her the "World's Best Mom" cup didn't apply to her, resonates deeply with any parent trying to juggle meaningful work with family life. By the trip's end, he changed his mind, illustrating how intentional, undistracted time can transform parent-child relationships.
For parents considering their birth options, Mundy offers valuable context about the differences between hospital births, birthing centers, and home births. Rather than advocating for one approach, she emphasizes the importance of preparation and informed decision-making regardless of setting. Her perspective is particularly valuable given her unique position of seeing what goes wrong when parents aren't adequately prepared.
Whether you're planning a family, expecting a baby, or simply interested in healthcare advocacy, this conversation offers rare insights from someone who's witnessed the aftermath of childbirth gone wrong, and is now dedicated to preventing these outcomes. Subscribe to For Shxtty Moms now and join our community of parents committed to doing their best, even when perfect isn't possible.
⏰ Chapter Markers ⏰
0:00 - Introduction to Gina Mundy
5:29 - Common Pitfalls in Childbirth
11:42 - Being Your Own Advocate
20:08 - Juggling Career and Motherhood
34:40 - Reconnecting with Kids Amid Busyness
51:38 - Family Impact of Birth Trauma Cases
59:27 - Final Thoughts and Resources
➣ For Guest Appearances, Sponsorship & Bookings: shxtmom@gmail.com
➣ Visit our official website: https://www.ForShxttyMoms.com
This episode of FSM is brought to you by Fidelity Behavioral Alliance, your number one source for behavior change. Fidelity Behavioral Alliance creates behavior change programs for schools, parents and organizations looking to reduce problem behaviors and improve performance outcomes. Find out more at wwwfidelitybehavioralliancecom. If you would like to sponsor an episode of FSM, email us at shitmom at gmailcom. That's S-H-X-T-M-O-M at gmailcom. M-o-m at gmailcom.
Speaker 1:It's time to put the kids to bed, so y'all get ready for another episode of For Shitty Moms. All right, welcome back to another episode of FSM. I'm your host, dr DeLoren, and today we have a very special guest joining us. As you all know, here at FSM we like to unpack all things relating to motherhood, parenting challenges and the unique strategies that allow moms to improve their overall parenting experiences. Today's guest is going to help us do just that. Now, today's episode is beneficial to all parents, not just moms, so you may want to take notes as you listen. Without any further ado, I'd like to introduce Gina Mundy to the show. Gina is a medical malpractice attorney specializing in birth trauma and injury. Gina is also a mom, wife and the best-selling author of A Parent's Guide to a Safer Childbirth. Gina, welcome to the show and thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me, DeLoren. I am very excited to be here today and talk to you more.
Speaker 1:Lauren, I am very excited to be here today and talk to you more Likewise Now with your intro. Did I get everything right? Is there anything that you need to correct? Is that your correct title? Go ahead and take us through your title, your credentials, your background and what it is that you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I think you got it right. So basically, I've been an attorney specializing in childbirth cases for right now, 21 years. And just so your audience understands what that is, that basically these are cases involving the birth of a baby and there's a complication, a mistake baby is not born healthy, baby may pass, or mom may pass away during childbirth. So as the attorney, I come in, find out what happened, what went wrong, why, more importantly, what should have been done? So mom around to raise her baby, or baby born healthy? And those questions have taken me across the United States many times.
Speaker 2:And then, about 19 years, deep into my profession, I was stopped in my tracks. Basically, we had a near family tragic event during the birth of a baby in my family and I was like, wait a minute, you know, based upon what I know in this field, I'm like I you know. Basically, you know there are reoccurring issues, are reoccurring mistakes, and I can tell you how I would prepare my kids for childbirth is completely different than how you know I would prepare my kids for childbirth is completely different than how you know normal family would prepare for childbirth. So I started to write down you know, these common issues, common facts, things that wanted my kids to know about childbirth, and basically figured out that this is information that could help families all around the world. So then, in June 2023, I published my book, like you just said, I started then speaking around the world.
Speaker 2:More recently I started my own podcast, but basically the bottom line is, instead of getting involved in the aftermath of something going wrong, I'm trying to get involved before childbirth to help families just prevent the complications, mistakes that I've seen, and have a healthy baby Cause. I'll tell you, the hardest part of my job is the day I sit down with the families and, you know, talk about the day their baby was born. So today, still a partner in my law firm, 21 years deep into it, still working on my baby cases, but my jam is more trying to get the information out there beforehand. Again, to you know, avoid, so parents can avoid what I see. Okay, I think that was it. Yeah, so the pot. Oh, my podcast is called. So I just heard my podcast, right?
Speaker 2:hey, sorry, it's my dogs uh so podcast is called the childbirth attorney with Gina Mundy. Um, it's on YouTube and then Spotify and all the other stuff. I actually I didn't really have time for it, but I had a producer reach out so I'm just supposed to talk on it, which is so not true. There's so much in a podcast you would know. So anybody, anybody expecting a baby or whatever, it's obviously again getting this information out, making sure you know people have healthy babies, because here's the deal I deal with the preventable mistakes. So know what? I know they're good to go there, you know they're. They're not going to see what I see. And again, all of that stuff is in my book.
Speaker 1:Okay, now in your book do you, I know, like the birthing centers, that has become really popular. So do you see a difference in, I guess, preventable mistakes and hospitals versus birthing centers? Is that something you cover? I feel like is becoming increasingly popular, that people are kind of turning to home births and birthing centers for that reason. So is there really like information out there saying that one is safer than the other?
Speaker 2:You are so smart, boom, hit it on the nose. That is the um. Where everybody's going is. I know two people right now doing home births and one doing a birthing center, two of them, two people, abdullah's, and whatnot, but yeah, there's definitely a huge shift that I have been seeing. So here's the deal with the baby cases the most common issue in the cases is the drug Pitocin.
Speaker 2:Pitocin induces mom's labor. So now, 39 weeks, you get an elective induction, all that stuff. Here's the deal. You're not getting that at a birthing center. Birthing center is not going to let you do a Pitocin induction, um, the um. You have to go into a hospital for that Um. And then same thing with a home birth. You're not going to deal with um, you know Pitocin, obviously, during a home birth. So if there's a complication, if there's a mistake, baby's not born healthy. The number one, again, most common fact Pitocin. What's the flip side of that? Natural, spontaneous vaginal birth, skip, skip the drugs. So that is, you know, that is home birth, that is the birthing centers. They want more of an all natural approach. So in that respect, yeah, you're, you're definitely going to, you know, be able. I think, obviously, if Pitocin is not involved, there's less chance of something going, you know going wrong, due again due to a mistake or, you know, a complication.
Speaker 1:Okay, and that's. That's good to know. I know my husband and I we were doing some family planning and that's part of the reason why we delayed for such a long time when I had my son around like 23. So you don't know what you don't know and you kind of just go in there First time mom, first time dad, and you just follow your doctor's lead and you don't really know. And it wasn't until I got a little older and I started to understand all of the risks associated with childbirth and that really made me delay. Because you know you think about growing your family but then you also think about the risk that you take just trying to get through labor and delivery. So I can say for me personally, I know my decision.
Speaker 1:I was I had like spinal surgery, so I'm kind of limited in what I cannot do when it comes to childbirth and that wasn't even brought to my attention until maybe five weeks before my due date. It just so happens the anesthesiologist was there when we were doing the tour and we got to talking and no one ever said anything about me having spinal surgery and how you know the epidurals that usually take place. That's not really an option for me and I had the spinal surgery when I was a kid so it never dawned on me to even think about it or how it would impact me in childbirth. So it kind of forced my husband and I to look into more natural and homeopathic options. Because for me, if something were to go wrong, they were like, oh, we'll just put you under, like they'll go old school. And I'm asking my mom, like what is old school? And she's like, oh, they're going to put you to sleep. That's how they did it back in the day. So was like, oh, that doesn't sound fun and I only have five weeks left. And uh, no, birthing center at the time would even take me. So a doula birthing center, that wasn't an option.
Speaker 1:I was too far along in the pregnancy, so just going through those things and luckily everything worked out through labor and delivery. But there were a few times where the doctor wanted to do something. I didn't really want to do it. And what do you do? We're here now, so do you have any recommendations for anyone, like, when they're in the hospital? Do they even have options like that? What's the best course of action to take?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, listen, you got to prepare for childbirth like you did and then that helps you make those good decisions. Here's the deal Mom's the decision maker during labor and delivery, the delivery team. No matter how they talk to you I know how some doctors talk it sounds like they're telling you something. They're not. Everything is a recommendation, so you prepare, kind of like you. It sounds like you prepared, so they would when they would talk to you on let's do this or let's do that. I'm not sure exactly what it is, but you have the knowledge base to be like. I'm good and you know what it sounds like. You had a healthy baby, so very, very important to get ready.
Speaker 2:You know chapter one of my book. It goes over the lessons from the baby cases. It's on my website for free. Everybody should look at it because as a lesson you can learn from the past to prevent it from happening in the future. And when I say lessons from the baby cases, it's the lessons from the families, the lessons from the delivery team, the medical experts. You know, really, on what you need to know Again, understanding that you know you are the decision maker and understanding the importance of you know getting ready and preparing for childbirth.
Speaker 2:And listen, I don't just say, okay, this is a lesson, good luck. No, every subsequent lesson is that every I'm sorry, every lesson is a subsequent chapter. So chapter two is going to go over. You know things that you really need to know again to give you a good foundation to make good decisions during labor. Now, something with spinal surgery that's so unique, that's not going to be something that's in my book, but there's a lot of other information that would help guide you and then so, okay, wait a minute, I know all of this stuff now, and this is not the stuff you're going to find in what to expect when you're expecting, or anything that I find important. When I'm looking at a new case that comes in and I'm like this, good care, bad care, this, these are the things I rely on, but it would give you again a good foundation. And then again, you're going to, because of the previous spinal surgery, maybe do some new other research. Talk to somebody. It sounds like they really should have like referred you to like MFM or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like a specialist or something, just to make sure you knew all your options. That's kind of you know I'm I'm surprised that no one gave you more options. That's actually kind of concerning, because you know if there was an emergency situation or you did need an like, that is like you know it's right, it's happening. It's it's kind of late in the game, so you get really lucky during your tour where you ran an anesthesiologist. You're extremely lucky and that helped you. I think probably again, prepare more, get your options and whatnot.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I think mentally I was fine Because my goal was I don't want to feel any pain, just give me that epidural. Like, as long as I got that epidural, I heard it worked wonders, I heard it was great. I heard it makes that labor and delivery experience better and more enjoyable for the moms. So five weeks learning that? That is not an option for me. I think the anesthesiologist kind of joked around like, oh don't worry, I'm going to do my best and I'm going to get in there. I'm going to try to get in there. But she was referring to my spine and I'm, like as many books as possible to see you know what are my options.
Speaker 1:And luckily my husband was right there with me. So we read like a lot of books on acupressure and just alternative medicine, things that you can do to make the labor delivery progress, what to do if you stall, and pain management. That was my biggest fear and it was not a good situation to be in. We only had five weeks left and then my son was born, maybe like two weeks early. My son was born maybe like two weeks early. So yeah, we didn't have a lot of time, but luckily I went out that same day. I bought books and we just kind of practiced like honey.
Speaker 1:The book says you got to push here and push there during a contraction and I have to do this, and so that's what we we did for pain management. But everyone doesn't have that option. So I think what you're doing is amazing, because in that situation that day leaving the tour from the hospital, you really do feel helpless. And then you start to hear, like I'm asking different people well, what if they tell me to do something? And I don't want to do it, you know? And we were told like, oh well, they can get a court order. So how likely is that to happen? Is that okay? Whatever, what are you gonna wait for?
Speaker 2:the job get.
Speaker 1:No, okay, well, no sorry okay, well, that that's pretty much what we were telling.
Speaker 2:Over. A matter like that takes time and just I mean when you're making decisions during childbirth. So getting a court order takes a lot of time, a lot of effort. A judge's signature after people go and explain everything to the judge, and then there's a certain criteria. I mean they really need to be. You know, your decision making has to be endangering your baby, and so what?
Speaker 1:Okay. Well, that makes me feel good because you do have a sense of okay, we're here now and you just have to listen to what they're telling you. So it's nice to hear from I feel, like an expert. Right, it's nice to hear from an expert that you do have choices. And, like I said, luckily, my doctor.
Speaker 1:He was very nonchalant because my contractions stopped, my son stopped. Everything just kind of stalled. And he was like OK, you're a first time mom, I can tell you want to do things your way. And he was like I'm going to let you guys do things your way, I'm going to go. He was like I don't think the baby's coming today, but I'm monitoring everything. I guess they have everything on their phones now through the apps. And he was like I'll be back, get some rest. I don't think that baby's coming today.
Speaker 1:And get some rest was probably the best advice that he gave me, because, looking back now, I don't think I would have made it Like we went to sleep and I probably arrived around two o'clock in the afternoon. We didn't have my son until around 7am the next day. So get some sleep, get some rest. That was the best advice, because there's no way without any like pain meds or anything, I don't think I would have been able to push my son out. You know, I just don't think I would have made it.
Speaker 1:And I hear that from a lot of moms Like it's exhausting, it's excruciating. A lot of moms are like, oh, I thought I was going to pass out. A lot of moms were like, oh, I thought I was going to pass out. And I think getting some sleep, getting some rest, gave me just enough energy to like get through the actual laboring part of it.
Speaker 1:So, knowing all of that and reflecting on my experience now that I'm older, I'm like I just felt like there were a lot of chances and there were a lot of risks associated with it, but at the time I didn't know. So I think it's great that you have created a resource for people who are doing their family planning or if they're already expecting and need a little more guidance. It's amazing that you've created a guide to help families through it, because I was even telling my husband like, hey, if something happens, this is gonna fall on you, like if I can't make any more decisions, they're gonna look to you to make some decisions and I I don't know. We were both kind of like okay, like oh shit, just that real, because they're not gonna go to my mom, you know they're not gonna go to my mom.
Speaker 1:They're gonna ask him. So I think it's amazing and I do think for sure we are gonna go through that book together before we do like any uh, family planning or finalize any decisions. We are definitely gonna go through it ourselves just to have that knowledge and that information because, like I said, we got lucky and I know a lot of people they don't get lucky. So thank you for making that resource for everyone. And where? Like, is this something on amazon? Do you have it on your website?
Speaker 2:yeah, so the default is always gina mundycom, g-i-n-a-m-u-n-d-ycom again. That's where I have chapter one again. Everybody should really read, um, and then also amazon is the easiest place to find it. Okay, you just type gina mundy even in the search bar safer childbirth, anything like that. It comes up.
Speaker 1:Okay you're funny, though, you said so in my book.
Speaker 2:I literally I said something in my book but then I was like dash, it just got real. You just said that my book is not swearing. So that's like the only time I swear in my book and it just happened to be the same exact thing that you just said. But no comment on your doctor. I really like your doctor's approach about resting and whatnot. You know, sometimes doctors, I think, try to hurry up the situation and that's where they can get into trouble. So the fact that he was like rest, I'm going to watch. So he's watching the baby's heart rate. Okay, so you know, think about it.
Speaker 2:You know when mom's in labor there's two patients. You mom, you're easy Doctor can talk to you, you can report if you have pain somewhere, they can physically assess you and so forth. They can, you know, after asking you questions and you answer and make a diagnosis, a plan. Life's great, baby's much different. You know, baby's inside you and the best way to figure out how your baby is doing during labor is their heart rate and that's why it graphs next to your bed at the nurse's station, the doctor's area, on their phone. So you know, he seemed like no, I'm going to check keep an eye on the baby's heart rate, which is extremely important because some doctors don't look at the baby's heart rate unless they're called. But yeah, the fact that he's like chill out, I'll keep an eye on the heart rate.
Speaker 1:I'm like yes, yeah, he was pretty hot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes me happy.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you have a lot on your plate. Your career. You're an author, you are doing your podcast. Now you are doing interviews for other podcasts. How in the world are you juggling all of that along with family and just maintaining your own mental health self-care? What does that look like for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I have three kids. One is 21, is almost 16. And the two older ones are girls. And then I have my little man. He's 10. Oh, wow, I also have two Sheltie dogs, two bunnies, a beta fish that won't die. So I just looked at its water. It's murky. It lives in like murky water. It's the 10 year olds, right, and so it lives in like murky water. I'm like I don't know how it's alive. It's hard, I'll tell you. You know, my house is a disaster. You know, I was hoping my teenage girls are about 20 and 16, but, you know, maybe help out a little bit more around the house or whatever, but no, my house is pretty unorganized, pretty dirty right now. Um, I'll tell you, though, it took 14 months to write my book and thousands of hours, while still, you know, being a partner in a law firm and all that. That was really hard. So I get up. My schedule changed a lot. I get up at 3am.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, I get up before the world wakes up.
Speaker 2:Um, that's been part of my secret, um, but what's the flip side of that? You got to go to bed at a reasonable time. I can't stay up till nine or 10 at night, and if I do, you should, it's like everybody saw a ghost. If I'm up at nine, you know, I just want to get a shirt that says boo if I'm like, that's how they look at me. But so, basically, you know I had to adjust my, my schedule. So then I basically feed animals, dogs, kids, make dinner, clean up and, you know, try to be in bed by seven If it's any later. I got to take a nap around noon just to get through the, you know, second half of.
Speaker 2:Oh, but yeah, changing changing the schedule was probably the biggest thing. My house, yep, like I said, I was on a zone to organize my social life. That's out the door, that's out. So you know, and it's funny because I thought when I published my book my life would go back to normal, being a partner in a law firm and a mom of three. No, it's, it's like worse. So, but hold on, I'll tell you, it's hard because getting on podcasts and even talking about my book and helping families like that's my jam, that's what I want to do.
Speaker 2:Like when I am on a show, I am so excited to talk. You know, when I have to go do my partner in a law firm thing and talk about, you know, right before this, I had a meeting and I have to talk about, okay, what happened to this baby? Why is this baby a brain damage? You know, I'm like, oh, you know, a couple of days ago I had to talk to a mom, you know, whose baby died after birth and you know you get into weird stuff like cremation and all this, and I'm just like, oh, my goodness. And then you know and this is actually very normal but she wears there's a big necklace and the baby's inside her necklace. Their heart and minds the baby. The mom's heart doesn't understand that baby's not there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know it's so hard listening to this stuff. So that's, you know, trust me. After. That's why, after 19 years of listening to these families, I'm like, all right, I got to do something. So you know it's hard because I do, but I'm loving it and I know I'm helping families and there's so many people out there appreciative. So you know I've been cutting back a little bit more, you know, at work.
Speaker 2:But then, out there, you know, trying to do this, but yeah, no, and then the kids have taken a hit peer my parenting, but my husband so I'm married okay, I'm married to a busy business owner. When I started writing my book kind of chilled out on that a little bit. So he really, you know, we kind of I wouldn't say switched roles. He's always been a really good dad, but he's definitely more active in their lives right now than me. Um, again, because you know I'm out there doing a bunch of things. So him taking more responsibility and whatnot has really helped. So but yeah, juggling it, yeah it's not fun, I mean, but you gotta do it so do you make time for yourself at all?
Speaker 1:what do you do for yourself?
Speaker 2:oh, yeah, you know, I did learn that I wish I would have done this earlier in life. Um, but no, I do take time for myself. That is one thing. So, um, I work out, usually between 5 am or 6 am. You're going to see me at the gym, kind of, you know, getting ready for my day mentally, or whatnot. First Saturday of every month I get my massage. Yeah, so, and I'm like, ok, well, that's it. Yes, I work out and I, oh, and the weekends I enjoy some wine. Ok, but yeah, I mean, I would say those are things. Oh, you know what else I do. This has been great. You're still young, even though you keep trying to tell me you're older. I'm 48. Okay, I'm 48.
Speaker 2:But IVs I get IVs every couple weeks that have like all of these vitamins and all of this stuff, and then they'll give me like a shot of like glutathione. But that I remember, when I released my book, the lady who owns the IV clinic where I live she is an author and owned a publishing company, you know back in the day or whatnot she's like you're going to need an IV every two weeks. And I'm like, okay, I'm like, are you paying, by the way? Cause they're not. Um, nope, there's shit. I needed an IV every two weeks and literally I could feel myself. You know, when I go past two weeks now I'm dragging, so yeah, so I would say IVs, massages, and then I work out. And I don't work out really to keep in shape. It's definitely mental, okay.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, and that's good. I love that you found something. All of it sounds enjoyable. Sometimes you get like these self-care ideas or suggestions and it's like I don't want to do that. That this is now I'm more stressed out because I don't want to do that. But yeah, I've tried a couple of the IVs myself. A girlfriend of mine kind of put me on to them um and I agree.
Speaker 1:Um, we have what is that place called? We have like allure here, like an allure spa clinic here. So definitely the vitamin c. Um, I feel like I feel the biggest difference with the vitamin C. I tried a couple of them for just like hydration, with the different B vitamins in there, and they didn't do too much. But for whatever reason, once I left, once I got the vitamin C treatment when I left from there, I was like all right, let's knock this out. So I agree with you there, that definitely helps Definitely. I see a difference with just drinking the water and I've been trying out this chlorophyll, so the green water, but it's good for like the inflammation, um, and I feel like a lot of that from the processed foods or salty foods or you know, just the crazy stuff that we may eat or drink throughout the day. I was definitely hooked on those Red Bulls and energy drinks so.
Speaker 1:I kind of shifted, I got a little scared like I'm getting older now, like after 35, I'm like, let me put those down. So I kind of traded the IVs, the vitamins, and I traded the chlorophyll water for the Red Bull. So I kind of swapped those out and just for the listeners, because we are like a behavior change podcast. I'm a behavior analyst, so everything that we are talking about today we're talking about replacement behaviors. Typically, when we're going into behavior modification, really we're identifying the behaviors that we may not like or risky behaviors. We're kind of identifying those and then okay, what can we replace it with to get the outcome that we want?
Speaker 1:So a lot of times people engage in behavior change and they don't really know it and behavior change and they don't really know it. So it makes it kind of hard to stick to something when you don't necessarily know what it is that you're doing right. But for you you've kind of already listed, you've given the listeners a bunch of ideas of replacement behaviors and the your replacement behaviors sound really nice. They sound really good and that feeds into what we feel like this is good for them. But sometimes you just can't stick to it because it may not be that enjoyable.
Speaker 1:So, um and I do hear a lot of moms say the same thing, especially, I don't know, the really, really busy moms. They have let go of the whole like maintaining the household. I don't know if it's like time that has gone by, but I know when I grew up that was a thing. Every Saturday morning you get up and you clean that house from top to bottom and it seems like the more moms that I interview they are just outright with it hey, my house is a mess. I don't even do that and I'm like, oh okay.
Speaker 1:I shouldn't feel so guilty anymore because the laundry is like oh, the struggle is real, with the laundry especially. So it's nice to hear and you don't sound stressed out at all with everything that you're juggling between the career um, now you're more so an entrepreneur and doing your own thing and creating a lane for yourself, and you still have to take care of your family and I know the listeners can't see you, but you look cool as a cucumber, like, so you're awesome. I love that because I feel like I'm just surrounded by everyone who's trying to do it all the moms. They're trying to do it all and they are high, strong, myself included. And but this process has taught me, like, why are you trying to do it all? That's not fun, it's it's not even enjoyable. So it's nice to see that you have identified, like, what works for you and what's not going to work for you, and it is what it is.
Speaker 1:I tell a lot of parents that I do parent coaching as well, and if you can't sustain something I'm starting to tell a lot more parents then don't bother If it's going to stress you out. If that's not something you can just maintain and incorporate into your daily routine, let it go. Don't even bother go, don't even bother. I know a lot of moms are stressed out about their kids and certain things their kids are doing and certain things that their kids are not doing. But I've been telling the moms, hey, if you can't coach them through it and teach them and correct them every single time until they got it on their own, don't even bother bringing it up and mentioning it to them, because it's going to become harder to sustain that behavior. So you're kind of doing that already on your own and I love to hear that. So how would you describe yourself as a mom?
Speaker 2:Oh wow, I know, I saw that question coming.
Speaker 2:Uh, uh, so that's interesting. Could do better, probably, um, in terms of mom thing. So, um, you know it was interesting. I, I wanted to take more of this. Basically, it's like family and friends had a little bit of intervention with me. Like, gina, you got to stop working. You know you need to take some time off, You're going to go cuckoo and um, so I, at that point I'm like, all right, I'm not going to work that much this summer, which is a joke right now, where I'm working just as much.
Speaker 2:So the only way to get away from it, we do have a camper and I love camping, um, so last week I took my son camping. He's 10. So, yeah, and this ties in with how do you see yourself as a mom? This was a huge turning point. It was literally last week. So, anyway, so bear with me, but anyway we, uh, we hit the camp store and, um, there were two cups and one of the cups the first cup said world's best mom, pentwater Michigan, and this is right when we arrived, and then the cup next to it just said Pentwater Michigan. And my 10 year old looks at the cup that says world's best mom, pentwater Michigan, and goes, mom, this cup does not apply to you. So if you want to buy one of the cups, you have to buy Pentwater Michigan. And I'm like my heart drops right Cause I've taken the whole week off work. It's just him and I and that's what he thinks of me and I'm like you gotta be kidding me. So I mean, he's a very direct kid. He very like he says it how it is no fluff ever. So I'm like, okay, like he didn't even have to say that. He could have just kept it to himself, but he obviously was trying to tell me something. So that week I'll tell you he was like camping with the energizer bunny and we and I'm like, all right, I got this. And uh, we did everything. We biked, we played frisbee in the water, we played baseball. So he's a pitcher for his baseball team, so I let him pitch to me for hours on end. We just we did everything.
Speaker 2:So we come to the last day of camping and basically I wouldn't say no to anything. So he'd be like, can we go to dinner? I'm like, sure, can we go to the candy shop? Sure, you know, or whatever. I mean he doesn't request anything crazy. So we have to go back to the camp store because he has bought in sunglasses and they broke. So we go back to the camp store and he walks back over to the cups and he's like okay, mom, well, after this week, if you want to buy world's greatest mom cup, that's fine, it now applies to you. And I'm like oh, thank you, you know.
Speaker 2:But before that, obviously I realized, um, that you know I I wasn't spending enough time with him. I mean, he's 10. And I had also asked him numerous times like, hey, do you want to bring a friend up? And he's like no, like you work all the time. I just want to see you, I just want to hang out with you. And he's a pretty social kid. So I'm like okay, but yeah. So how do I describe Yep, and you definitely need to spend some more time with my kids.
Speaker 2:But I'll tell you, we got back from that camping trip and I leave to go to the store or something. He'd be like okay, mom, love you. Like he hasn't said that in years. You know it's always me saying, all right, liam, love you. And he'd be like love you too, mom, that's his thing, right? So this time it was like he took initiative after the camping trip and all that stuff. So yeah, so, as a mom, definitely need to spend some more time with the kiddos and you know, just make sure you know they're just young ones, uh, so yeah, that's probably my description. So I'm, I'm trying, okay, and you know what, so I'm trying, okay, and you know what.
Speaker 1:That's exactly what the show is about. Definitely no mom shaming goes on here whatsoever, and we're all trying. So with the name. I came up with the name because, just like you, I realized I'm a little too busy. It's just like you know what. I can't be the only one, right, but it seems like there's so little time to do everything that you need to do as a mom and mainly it's you know to provide for your family, to give yourself a quality of life that you want. But there are so many demands out there it's almost impossible to do it all. And I feel like when I was growing up, my mom kind of did everything in my eyes and I'm like how the heck did she do that? Like?
Speaker 1:this is nuts, like now that I'm a mom, I'm like, okay, I'm just not doing that, this is nuts. Like, now that I'm a mom, I'm like, okay, I'm, I'm just not doing that, this is nuts. So, even cooking dinner every day three times a week, like that, that's not happening in my reality. That's not realistic. And I used to be like, oh, I guess I'm going to be a shitty mom today, cause I'm like no, we're gonna get some chick-fil-a, we're gonna call it a day and that's gonna be it. We'll try again tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Um, so there are things that I always beat myself up about, until I start talking to other moms who don't really beat themselves up about it anymore. It is, it is, it is right, they're unapologetic about it. And I had a guest on the show who was like hey, as a parent, when she gets to that point, it's like all right, what's the next best thing that I can do right now? And after that, everything else, she kind of lets go. So, with all the experiences that you have as a parent, what is the best advice that you've received as a mom?
Speaker 2:Be patient. But I think that goes in hand in hand with, you know, high stress job, you know working all the time. You know you're just more. I think you're just more on edge. I mean, I think about it, camping I was so chill, I was like different. And then after camping I was different for a little bit until I realized how far behind I got. And you know, and not only that, I'm leaving next week, before the July week. So it's like I'm in this week and I'm just like you know. So, yes, I might be a little more high stress, which patient seems to go out the window. So I'll be like, okay, remember, be patient. Kids, you know only young once and so forth.
Speaker 1:But yeah, just being patient so a lot of the questions you've kind of touched on, so I'm not going to go through all of them, because you kind of answered them with some of your explanations. So cool, what advice. And this is kind of the the same thing. So what are some of the most rewarding experiences that you've had with your kiddos, with everything that you have going on, what are some of the more rewarding experiences that you've had as a mom?
Speaker 2:For instance, mother's Day, when we're all together, my family knows they have my undivided attention and we just have like a great time or even like camping. You know I spent the week with my son. We were able to kind of rebound a little bit and like just like, like I said, you know I'm leaving and he's like, okay, love you mom. Or he gives me a hug or you know he was, you know like kind of like, oh, I'm mom. Or he gives me a hug, or you know he was, you know like kind of like, oh, I'm 10. Don't touch me, you know whatever. Like don't hug me or give me a kiss in front of my friends or whatever. But I dropped him off at basketball camp a couple of days ago and I totally hugged and kissed him and he was like he was okay. I'm like, oh, my goodness, I hugged and kissed my 10 year old is everything okay. But you know we had just bonded and we were, you know, so tight. But, um, you know I think it is too just.
Speaker 2:You know I took that time, I put everything aside. He was my everything for that week and then getting back and going back into everything. You know I definitely this past week have been more like are you hungry? Because he has basketball camp in the morning but he's home, so it's like do you need anything? You know I was more attentive to him versus hiding in my office, working as fast as I can, you know, kind of the mindset that maybe some of this really can wait and whatnot. So but yeah, just the effects of last week and what it's done to our relationship it was I don't know. It opened my eyes and it's definitely kind of moving forward trying to keep that in mind.
Speaker 1:And that's awesome that you gave yourself the opportunity to unplug and reconnect. I think in a perfect world if we could do that more often. We would. We know it's good, but we don't always do it or we tell ourselves we don't have time. What do you say to yourself to get through it? What do you?
Speaker 2:say to yourself to get through it, I'll do better. Like yeah, I mean these days, you have to understand. I mean my time's so limited. You know I went out with one of my friends. That was a couple of weeks ago now. It was a Friday afternoon and just my kids are like, well, we haven't seen you all week. What do you mean? You're going out with your friend and I'm like, okay, I never go out with my friends. But you know, and I know, my little man wanted to watch a movie and I'm like I'll be back, but I didn't get. You know, I go to bed so early. I did not get back in time to watch a movie or whatnot. So you know it's just trying to.
Speaker 2:When I do something, you know it's hard, cause I'm kind of like I have to see my friends too. Like I told you, I asked my social life, so I hadn't seen this person in months. And not only that. You know somebody who had been reaching out like can we do something? Can we do something? Can we do something? You know, you know somebody who had been reaching out like can we do something? Can we do something? Can we do something? You know, and then we had planned stuff. I canceled four times because always you know, you know can't really leave the house to see people, because then my kids are like what happened and it was funny.
Speaker 2:I did do. Where I work out. They had it was a two every Tuesday. They meet for drinks and I went one Tuesday. This is a couple months ago. I went one Tuesday just to say hi to everybody. Again, they do it every Tuesday, I.
Speaker 2:So the next day, wednesday came and you know, the kids are like you want to watch a movie? I'm like it's way too late, guys, I have to go to bed. And it was like they were like, well, you just went out yesterday and you stayed out until like 30. And so it's like, oh, okay, so I remember that Wednesday I stayed up. So now I'm staying up two nights late, I'm exhausted. Thursday rolls around. I'm like I see everybody at the gym and I'm like I'm never going to Tuesday night again. I'm like my family made me stay up. Last night for you guys, I had to stay up. You know for them, um, which is fine, I mean both nights were fun, um, and stuff. But I mean just, I don't know, just trying to do your best is it's hard, let me just. It's hard. It's hard to have a lot on your plate and juggle everything for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I definitely call it the struggle and juggle, because you can't balance everything at one time. That's no good, because you end up doing you know, I had a mom say you half ass thisass this, and you half-ass that, and you half-ass half-ass, and I'm like, yeah, so but just pay attention to what you can at the time and I absolutely love. You are the first mom that I've had on the show to say anything about a nap and like that's my favorite thing to do.
Speaker 1:Like I will take a nap anywhere, and I don't know if that's just like a, an unspoken luxury, and and other moms are not napping throughout the day, but I feel like it's really important, like you said, to catch that second win. So you are all of these things like the behavior therapist in me is like okay, these are some pretty good replacement behaviors, right to help you maintain the things that you want to do. So you've already kind of built in your own little interventions throughout the day to maintain. And you said something really important earlier is that you really like what you do. You love what you do. That's your jam. So that intrinsic motivation is really important.
Speaker 1:And I think a lot of times as parents we get bogged down with our obligations and we forget to enjoy the things that we are actually doing. And sometimes, when you put those obligations as a priority and you kind of push your enjoyment to the back burner, I've started to notice like, at least for me, the family doesn't even want to be around you, right, because you're not really enjoying the time. You're probably cranky, you probably have an attitude, probably stressed out about all of the stuff that you should be doing, and it defeats the purpose of that quality time. So it's nice to see that you have figured out like okay, I am busy. Sometimes I get moms who say they're busy and it's like are you really?
Speaker 2:But everything that I know that you have going on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I definitely would not step to you like, oh, I just have so much to do. Like certain people you cannot. I have a girlfriend who's a professor and I tell her all the time I can't come to you saying, oh my God, I just don't have enough time. Like you're a professor, you're a behavior specialist, you have two kids. You have a kid in band like she is busy, so if she can get it done, you know what are you prioritizing. It kind of helps me check myself and I feel the same way with you. Everything that you just listed. Your job is really important and you're still finding time to do what you need to do. So I can't even sit here like, oh, I can't do that, I don don't have time. No, you just said you start your day at 3am, so you know you make time for what you want to do. I like that.
Speaker 2:Thank you. You know what listen here's the deal sometime to like what I'm trying to do that's my jam is, you know, help families have a healthy baby, but like. So I recorded my first episode of my podcast. It's Bailey's story. I think I recorded it in April. She had her baby in December and she her baby. She went in with a healthy baby and she did not leave with a healthy baby and a lot of what her story was was kind of the stuff that's in my book, like don't let it happen to you type thing. And so I did make her the first you know podcast, but she hadn't read my book. We have a great podcast.
Speaker 2:She's amazing. She's just trying to get you know information out to other moms, like just don't let this happen to you and why? So then, after the podcast, she reads my book and she's, like she said, she understands everything in it. It was when it was really hard for her Because you know, basically had she read it before her. You know the birth of her daughter. You know things may have been different and I hear things like that and you know, I'll tell you for that. Two weeks after that it was like all right, I got to do this. I got to. You know what I mean. So it's always like this juggle right. So, but yeah, that's why getting out there and talking, because I'm like, okay, is there anyone else I can change their life or I can do that, but yeah, but it's those stories, it's those moments that are just like they just stop me Right, and I think it's.
Speaker 1:I love the dynamic here because you are approaching things through a more proactive means. So I feel like with your information, with the book as a resource, you're really empowering families to take charge. I work with kids with autism as a behavior therapist and we get a lot of parents who really feel hopeless and helpless right In their situations and I get a lot of questions all the time like why is autism popping up everywhere? Do you really think this is autism? And, to be completely transparent, I don't think every kid that I treat really and truly has autism right. It could have been something that happened along the labor and delivery right. That could have led to something else, and now here we are.
Speaker 1:I have worked with parents who probably had two kiddos who were on the spectrum. And usually all the kids that I work with they do have a diagnosis of autism. And I go in the homes, I go in the community, everywhere the kids go. I go right To help the caregivers, the teachers and the families navigate different environments for their kids. And I just remember I had one grandparent.
Speaker 1:She was adamant. She was old, from the islands and she was adamant like, nope, it's not autism, I don't care what anybody says. But then she starts telling me the mom's birthing story and she was like but then she starts telling me the mom's birthing story and she was like I think they just had them in too long. Mom wanted to continue to try to push and everyone was saying, hey, we need to do a C-section. So it's just different things and I never split hairs with the family. I know it's a sensitive subject and from my perspective we're here now. That's how I look at it. So I don't know what happened. I can't tell you if it's a true diagnosis or if it was something else. I don't know. But this is where we are now and this is how we move forward. So that has always been my approach, because I've always looked at it as you get what you get. And how can we make this the most comfortable situation for the family, right? How?
Speaker 2:can we?
Speaker 1:give this child a quality of life. That's what I look at. But how amazing is it to know that there are some things that we can do before you get to that point that might make a difference, right, that might give you a better quality of life just with informing yourself about that labor and delivery process, and this is not common knowledge. Look, I just told you what the extent of my knowledge was, and I thought I was pretty knowledgeable, right, but apparently not All the information I got was wrong, and that happens to so many people who really don't know how to navigate that space. So, thank you so much for all that you are doing, and I really hope your family understands your work and how important it is to other families out there. What do your kids think about what it is that you're doing? What are their thoughts?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a great question, but hold on real quick before I answer that. So just so you understand too. In the baby cases, sometimes babies that have been injured during labor and delivery are diagnosed with autism.
Speaker 2:And it's almost like a misdiagnosis. But you know, if somebody who's not very educated puts that in their record, then it's like they're labeled and then it'll carry on or whatever. But just so, yeah, you understand that I've seen that in a lot of cases where there is a diagnosis of autism and again these are cases so, but somebody diagnoses them with them even though it's an injury that's related to birth. So that's where my kids definitely give me a break. We're like mom, we know you're trying to save babies. So they understand, you know everything actually based upon what I'm doing. My 20 year old decided a few months ago that she actually wants to go to school to be a lawyer, to do the you know something very similar to what I'm doing. So she's you know they do give me a break. They know I'm out there trying to help families. You know I think they've seen how you know, meeting with the family is talking to them about the birth of their baby. It's affected me. I mean, I'm not not going to lie.
Speaker 2:It was Tuesday. I had to depose the mom who lost her baby and she's hysterically crying during a deposition, holding the heart, which I didn't understand is where her baby was until later in the deposition. But, like I, I don't know if it's from writing the book and actually you could. I don't know if it's from writing the book and actually you could. You know, you may feel, appreciate this writing the book for me. For the first three months I actually cried. As you know, I had, for the first 19 years of my career, really suppressed, I think, emotionally, what I had gone through with these cases. So I cried. But then I had clarity and it really propelled me to write the best book I could to help families. But I'll tell you now this like I so I did the mom's deposition.
Speaker 2:I came, I picked up wine on the way home because I'm like I got to calm down. You know my family's there and I had told them and I usually don't share with my kids what I. You know my family's there and I had told them and I usually don't share with my kids what I. You know my life as a childbirth attorney, but I'm like I don't know what's wrong with me, like I can't handle this one. So I'm it seems like I'm more susceptible to, you know, being upset or emotional. You know when I do have to talk about. You know mom who's lost. You know her baby it's. It's like it's really hard. So my kids will see, you know they. They were with me on Tuesday. They saw how I reacted, what I'm going through, and I think it helps. You know them realize what mommy is, what mommy's trying to do, so they do their. That's probably the only reason they still love me as much as they do, cause they do know I'm out there trying to do something that no one else is doing.
Speaker 1:That's good. So you, you have them giving you a little grace, and I think that's important too. As parents, I think a lot of times we shield our kids from everything but it's, or we try to but it's, or we try to, and then sometimes letting them just take a peek behind the curtain so they don't think you're just to this episode, because you definitely get to look behind the curtain Myself, the audience, we get to see what really goes into doing all of these amazing things that you are doing, and it's a lot. And it's nice to hear. I mean, I I'm not saying it's nice that you're struggling, but it's nice to hear that someone is brave enough to say, hey, this is not easy, this is hard, sometimes it sucks, sometimes I don't get it right and my kids are there to kind of call me on it and hold me accountable, but then they're also showing you grace and I think more moms need to hear that reality so that they can walk into whatever greatness that they're destined for. They need a chance to walk into that, just how you're doing.
Speaker 1:I mean, you were an attorney, you already had a great career and now you've taken it even a step further to raise awareness and get this information out here. So you're working on both ends. You are helping after the fact, when things go wrong, but you're giving people the knowledge to say, hey, this doesn't have to be your story, this was someone's story, it doesn't have to be the same for you. So thank you for all that you are doing. Um, if someone wanted to contact you.
Speaker 1:Uh, what would be the best way to contact you?
Speaker 2:Always. My website is definitely the best way. It has the contact information, my email, which goes to my phone. If anybody needs it right now, though, it's gm at GinaMundycom. Again, it's on my website. It literally goes to my phone. So if you email me, it'll say new contact message, and I'm going to look because I do love hearing from people, especially if they've read my book or I get a lot. Even health care workers will be like oh my goodness, I read your book or come on my podcast or you know whatnot, but definitely the best way will always be that website and then purchasing the book is the best way. It be that website and then purchasing the book is best way is Amazon.
Speaker 1:All right, thank you so much and we'll definitely put that in the show description when we release this episode. Thank you so much for your time and your insight and your insight and I just really love the show and I can't wait for everyone to hear your story and hear this episode. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Oh, deloren, thank you so much for having me. I'm just curious to see what you're going to make for the title of the show. It's going to be like the childbirth attorney complete family disaster, much, much different than her Instagram account makes her out to be. You know what I love, what you're doing. I'm so comfortable. You mentioned cool as a cucumber. You made me cool as a cucumber. I'm a little more on edge or whatever, but your voice, like the way you talk, what you say, I think is just incredible. I learned so much just sitting here. You know listening to you. So you know, thank you for my kudos, but kudos to you because I know families that listen to you. Your episode, episodes, I mean this is great. This is really great stuff for families. So, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I really appreciate it and I think we're on the same mission. Just get the information out there and let's empower moms and families. So thank you so much, I appreciate it. Hey everyone, it's your favorite BCBAD here, dr DeLoren, and I'm here to ask you to help us continue making great content for listeners everywhere by visiting wwwforshittymomscom, where you can make a monthly contribution. Also, visit us on Instagram, youtube, facebook and TikTok at Foreshitty Moms and that's shitty, with an X, not an I.